17245: Saint-Vil to Burnham: Proof of betrayal too weak for Prestige (fwd)

[Bob Corbett <corbetre@webster.edu>]

From: Jean Saint-Vil <jafrikayiti@hotmail.com>

Thanks for this response Thor. I must admit that you are moving closer to
that Prestige. But right now, you have only earned yourself half of an El
Presidente.

1) In my first message I referred to a specific letter which records
Christophe's response to Leclerc when the latter invited him to betray
Toussaint. I do not have the primary source at my disposal, but if this
letter exists (and I see no reason to believe it was invented), it
represents Christophe's own statement, not that of a historian analysing the
situation centuries afterwards. In that letter Christophe clearly refused
Leclerc's indecent proposal. Was he faking? How do we know that ?

2) Although I have much respect for James and Geggus, I am very mindful that
taken from a eurocentric perspective Dessalines (and to a lesser extent
Christophe) has been and remains to this day the "Malcom X" of Haitian
history.  With such men, I find it wiser to rely on their own words and
actions as opposed to other people's perceptions of them in order to
understand who they truly were and what they stood for. What James and
Geggus offer are not facts but opinions. How do they know when Dessalines or
Christophe were "sincere"? These men were fighting a bloody war for survival
against a slave-making army, lets we forget! Do we at least have in
Toussaint's biographies or his letters to Napoleon, statements which suggest
that he was or ever thought that he was betrayed by Dessalines and
Christophe?  Do we have any statement from Dessalines, Christophe or their
contemporaries which support this supposed betrayal?

Obviously, Toussaint gave the french more credit than they deserved and
Dessalines made a more accurate assessment of Leclerc and of Napoleon's
genocidal plans. But, this difference does not in itself give credence to
your claim of betrayal - it  remains unsubstantiated.

Thor, I did not "attack " Ballard's travel report. I pointed to her some
obvious errors which needed to be corrected before publication in a serious
paper. And as far as I know, she may very well possess more Melanin than
Colin Powell under her skin - therefore "outrage that another "blan" was
spouting spurious facts that didn't conform to my standards of  reportage"
was not the motivation!. And, yes, this Haitian is quite aware that, unlike
the Catholic Pope, he is fallible and prone to making mistakes in messages
sent to this list and elsewhere...however, i think there is a great
difference between making honest mistakes and participating in a deliberate
campaign to sully a people's vaillant contribution to humanity, don't you
agree Citizen Comrade?

Jafrikayiti
«Depi nan Ginen bon nèg ap ede nèg!»
http://www.i-port.net/sd-in-j/



----Original Message Follows----
From: Bob Corbett <corbetre@webster.edu>
To: Haiti mailing list <haiti@lists.webster.edu>
Subject: 17233:  Burnham to Saint-Vil: prestige, please (fwd)
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 07:37:22 -0600 (CST)


From: thor burnham <thorald_mb@hotmail.com>

Dear Saint-Vil:

The original intent of my challenging the dates of Toussaint's death (your
response to Ballard) was because of your attack on Ballard's travel piece,
and your outrage that another "blan" was spouting spurious facts that didn't
conform to your standards of  reportage. I was just showing that you were a
lot more like Ballard than you thought. You acknowledged as much through a
fritay offering, which I accepted, but with the caveat that you had erred
again with respect to Moise. Based on the initial fritay offering, i thought
that a man of your integrity wouldn't leave me swaf.

Saint-Vil states:

"... yet offered NOTHING to substantiate your claim that Dessalines and
Christophe gave Toussaint away to the French."

fiine. sigh.

1) C.L.R. James. The Black Jacobins.1963 edition. p. 333.

quote
"...The yellow fever had the French Army in its grip. Toussaint and
Dessalines had known that this was coming, had calculated on it, and but for
Christophe and Toussaint it is unlikely that Dessalines would ever have
submitted.  Soon it would be time to strike, and Dessalines, who had
formerly worshipped Toussaint, determined to get him out of the way, as well
as Christophe, for their pro-French leanings. He pretended to be absolutely
devoted to Leclerc, and suggested to him that the colony would never be at
peace unless Toussaint was sent out of it. Christophe and Clairveaux told
Leclerc the same: they were sincere. Dessalines was equally sincere that
Haiti would only be at peace when Toussaint was removed, only the peace he
planned was the destruction of Leclerc and the expulsion of everything
French from the island. Faithful and loyal assistant to Toussaint, he knew
his chief well enough to doubt his capacity to take the steps Dessalines saw
would be necessary.He saw what had to be done and could trust no one except
himself to do it. Since the days of Crete-a-Pierrot, Dessalines had his
programme for national indpendence ready, and Rochambeau, who knew him well,
ceaselessly warned his brother officers that Dessalines meditated treachery.
Leclerc knew that it was Dessalines who mattered, and feeling himself master
of Dessalines he took the step."
unqote

James explains on 334 that it is unlikely that Toussaint would have gone to
the meeting with Brunet if he didn't think he still had Dessalines,
Christophe and  Belair behind him ...would Leclerc have been able to arrest
him if they had been?

2) David Geggus. "The Haitian Revolution" in the collection edited by
Franklin Knight and Colin Palmer entitled: The Modern Caribbean. 1989. pps.
29-50. this quote is on the bottom of page 45 and the top of page 46. This
article is printed again, word for word in Geggus' latest book, Haitian
Revolutionary Studies. 2002. on pp 26 and 27.

quote:
"....Through the month of April Toussaint kept up a vigorous guerrilla
campaign with great persistence but dwindling resources. He surrendered
early in May and retired to private life on one of his plantations.
Christophe, Dessalines, and the other generals were maintained in their
posts and used by the French to mop up remaining guerilla resistance.
      It may be that all three leaders were biding their time. Leclerc's
army
was already severely weakened and the blacks well knew that during the
summer it would be decimated by disease. Nevertheless, when within a month
Toussaint was accused of plotting rebellion, it was Dessalines and
Christophe who helped denounce him.  The old leader was kidnapped, hastily
deported, and died ina French dungeon in April 1803. Despite this devious
maneuvering by the military chiefs, small bands of insurgents fought on in
the mountians in the tradition of the maroons. As Toussaint declared on
leaving the colony: the French had felled only the trunk of the tree of
liberty; it had strong roots and would grow again."
unquote

i'll be enjoying that prestige

best,
thor burnham

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